Joe Grundy

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Posts by Joe Grundy

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  61

  Over-protective parent?

  by GrownMidget in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was something like 20-21 and there was this young sister, maybe 16 who i happened to like back in the day ... uh oh ...we met in the summer convention because i made the first move while she was playing board games with her friend.

  we kept in touch via skype and text messages because lived kinda far from each other.

  eventually her mother heard of the stuff and said to her daughter that the chatting must stop.... well, when two people have a little crush on one another, it sure doesn't.

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  Joe Grundy

  "it's a sign that the laws didn't think everything through - as well as focusing on who you want a law to apply to you need to consider who you don't want it to apply to and draft it accordingly"

  And therein lies the problem. The law is a clumsy thing. That;s why almost any statute law is amended and defined by years of case law (i.e. courts' definitions). Statute law is made by parliamentarians, sometimes in response to events and often with a view to populist reaction and possible re-election. Sadly, IME, laws are often ill-conceived and not thought through.

  I don't know what the answer is - I just raise the problems.

  I remember conversations I had with my son when he was 18ish and heading out for a night on the town. Clubs door control should, of course, have ensured that all patrons were 18 (haha!). I explained to him that in theory if he met a girl celebrating her 16th birthday the course of his life could be altered depending on what took place before, and what took place after, midnight.

  Bringing this back to JWs - would a 21 yearold MS/elder be considered to be in a 'position of authority' over a naieve 17 yearold 'sister', I wonder? Arguments for and against, I suppose.
  
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  61

  Over-protective parent?

  by GrownMidget in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was something like 20-21 and there was this young sister, maybe 16 who i happened to like back in the day ... uh oh ...we met in the summer convention because i made the first move while she was playing board games with her friend.

  we kept in touch via skype and text messages because lived kinda far from each other.

  eventually her mother heard of the stuff and said to her daughter that the chatting must stop.... well, when two people have a little crush on one another, it sure doesn't.

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  Joe Grundy

  This is a fascinating, if at times uncomfortable, subject of discussion. I come at it from the position of being a retired cop who dealt with more than enough abuse cases and as the father of a daughter who was raped at 17.

  Legislation is confused and contradictory. In some Middle East countries, child marriage is acceptable. But even in more 'civiliised' countries there are huge issues. My understanding is that the minimum age for marriage in NH, USA is 13 but the federal age for buying alcohol is 21.

  Here in UK, the age of consent (and marriage with parental/court consent - except in Scotland where that consent is not required) is 16 - unless the 'other party' is a teacher or some other person in authority in which case the age of consent is 18. Yet in the recent Independence referendum, 16 year olds were given the vote, and there is a move to lower the voting age to 16.. You can't drive a car until you're 17.

  The age of consent varies across Europe. This summer I was in Andorra, which straddles the Pyrenees between France and Spain. The border is largely unmarked. If I was camping, a few yards either side of the border may have made the difference between legality and paedophilia.

  And it gets more crazy. Suppose there is a British soldier serving overseas. He is 19. His wife (17) sends him a nude photo of herself by email to cheer him up. Legally, she is guilty of making and distributing an indecent image of a child (legal definition 18) and he is guilty of possessing it. Or, a 17 year old boy and girl exchange images of themselves legally having sex. Both could be guilty of making/sharing/possessing indecent images of children - even if they are married.

  Thinking further. What about a married couple, both 17, (and their baby) choose to holiday somewhere where the age of consent is 18?
  

  No rational or reasonable person would seek to condone child abuse or exploitation. But just thinking this issue through could cause the brain to explode - especially given (as I understand it) that highest hormone/fertility levels tend to be at a lower age than most societies accept.

  A minefield, I think.
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  33

  Letter to be read at meeting this week about the downsize

  by dropoffyourkeylee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a family member who is a bethelite informed me today that there is a letter to be read soon ( this week or next) concerning the downsizing.

  so probably someone who has their midweek meeting early in the week will be able to fill in the details.

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  Joe Grundy

  Just an idle thought.

  I've never used the j w dot org site - I assume that it has a search facility.

  What if ... a dub searches for the latest letter/information and inadvertently finds the one before, or the one before that, or the one before that?

  Could be a thought-provoking moment for those whose minds are open to provoked?
  
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  183

  JWs have more good points than bad

  by lsw1961 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).

  2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.

  this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

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  Joe Grundy

  "They way they are being trained to talk to objection-raisers and conversation-stoppers gives them good speech mannerism in all avenues of life."

  I suggest that you watch the recent proceedings of the Australian Royal Commission - the interviews of senior elders, branch heads, and Jackson of the GB. You may (or may not) wish to revise your opinion on this point.

  ETA: Welcome!
  
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  35

  A question

  by JeffT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anybody ever written bethel and just flat out asked for an accounting report on the society's finances?

  we all keep batting around speculation about the wtbs and money, and actual information seems non-existent.

  what would they do if somebody asked for a financial statement?

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  Joe Grundy

  I never was a JW.

  My interest in this area is because before I retired (10 years ago) as a cop I spent ten years in command of a police Fraud Squad/Financial Investigation/Money Laundering unit. 'TNF' or 'Trust Nobody' was the motto.

  Time and time again con-men repeated the mantra 'Con your family and friends first, because they're the easiest'. Numerous times, con-men had preyed on, or infiltrated in order to prey on, religious groups to find a rich new field of victims. After all, 'if brother xxx is 'one of us' of course we can trust him'. Sadly not.

  The 'golden rule' in all of this is 'follow the money' - and this can be quite complicated. It doesn't necessarily mean cash. Who's living the lifestyle with no visible means? Who's driving the luxury cars? You get my drift.

  Just out of interest I researched via the UK Charity Commission website my local JW KH and its trustees, then did a Google view search. Interesting, to say the least.
  
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  5

  A Never-Was JW's Response

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i never was a jw.. my traditional response to jws calling at the door was to raise 'the issues' - standard stuff.

  they don't come so often now.. when the arc was going out live, i watched most of the broadcasts.

  i was struck by just how poorly the head honchos performed.

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  Joe Grundy

  I never was a JW.

  My traditional response to JWs calling at the door was to raise 'the issues' - standard stuff. They don't come so often now.

  When the ARC was going out live, I watched most of the broadcasts. I was struck by just how poorly the head honchos performed. Here we had the heads of the Australia branch, including its chief legal adviser, and TBH they were risible.

  Then Jackson was interviewed (and I noted the shenanigans that went on - and the almost unheard-of apology by the WT lawyer).

  His performance was a PR disaster for the organisation.

  In future, my response at the door will be limited to an expression of sincere sympathy (that the caller is in a corrupt cult) and a recommendation that they watch the ARC proceedings on the (recently approved) internet.
  
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  13

  The Man With a Secretary's Inkhorn - who he, and does he wear flip-flops?

  by rory-ks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  at the agm this year geoffrey jackson identified the "man with a secretary's inkhorn," of ezekiel chapter 9 as being jesus christ.

  this was declared an "adjustment" from the previous understanding that the organisation used to believe that this "man" was "the annointed.".

  has the society always taught that the "man with the secretary's inkhorn" was someone other than jesus - or is this a situation where back in the mists of time the bible students understood him to be jesus, and then rutherford (or someone) identified him as "the annointed," and now they have reverted back to their initial belief?.

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  Joe Grundy

  I never was a JW.

  I watched Jackson's testimony before the ARC.

  He is a liar, a prevaricator, and has no credibility whatsoever.
  
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  211

  Where are you from?

  by BeautifulMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know we are all anonymous for our own personal reasons, so i understand if you would rather not say.

  but if you don't mind sharing that would be cool.

  i currently live in georgia, usa.

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  Joe Grundy

  Pembrokeshire, West Wales, UK.
  
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  12

  WT Failure To Engage In Charitable Works

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i never was a jw.. wtbts and its hydra-headed organisations world wide has charitable status.

  yet, as far as i can see, it carries out little or no real charitable works.. last weekend my son and his friends did a 420 km cycle ride and mountain walk in aid of a local hospice at home charity.

  they've raised (so far) 5,000. this charity makes a real difference.. this a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ijr7ipvrek&feature=youtu.be.

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  Joe Grundy

  Well, not my place as I never was a JW ...

  But I say 'Bollocks' to their claim to be a charitable organisation.

  And I will say this to the next (in a long line) of JWs who come to my door.
  
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  12

  WT Failure To Engage In Charitable Works

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i never was a jw.. wtbts and its hydra-headed organisations world wide has charitable status.

  yet, as far as i can see, it carries out little or no real charitable works.. last weekend my son and his friends did a 420 km cycle ride and mountain walk in aid of a local hospice at home charity.

  they've raised (so far) 5,000. this charity makes a real difference.. this a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ijr7ipvrek&feature=youtu.be.

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  Joe Grundy

  Thanks.

  This was a happy weekend, although all involved were completely knackered. (I am the smiling guy with the take-away coffee!).

  What struck me was that these are ordinary ('wordly') people, doing something for other people.

  The WT people - who have no idea - just can't touch this in terms of 'charitable' work. And they deserve (IMHO) to be condemned for this.